News - Northern Health Fined 355K

Corey: 00:00:00

So Nathan, we wanted to get into this, um, little piece

Corey: 00:00:03

of current events in our province.

Corey: 00:00:05

Kind of an interesting story outta Prince George, that the Northern Health

Corey: 00:00:10

Authority here in BC was, was given a $355,000 fine after failing to complete

Corey: 00:00:17

safety investigations of their sites.

Corey: 00:00:21

And this is, uh, a fine imposed on them by, by WorkSafe, bc and.

Corey: 00:00:26

Kind of kind of interesting story cuz this doesn't happen a whole lot.

Corey: 00:00:30

And to me, I, I know that health authorities have that anytime there are

Corey: 00:00:35

workplace injuries, there are issues of compensation and, and premiums can go

Corey: 00:00:40

up for employers and stuff like that.

Corey: 00:00:42

But $350,000 is not nothing like, that's getting into a bit more of a

Corey: 00:00:47

significant penalty for an employer, even if it's as big as a health a.

Corey: 00:00:52

I've got the article in front of me.

Corey: 00:00:54

This is outta Prince George and what it says here, I won't

Corey: 00:00:57

read the whole thing, but work.

Corey: 00:00:59

Work safety C levied a $355,000 administrative penalty on our health

Corey: 00:01:03

authority for failing to conduct adequate workplace in inspections,

Corey: 00:01:07

following reports from nurses and other healthcare workers about

Corey: 00:01:10

ongoing safety, safety issues.

Corey: 00:01:12

At a fourth St.

Corey: 00:01:13

John facility leading back to.

Corey: 00:01:15

President has serious concerns as to whether this penalty is indicative,

Corey: 00:01:19

indicative of a systemic oversight by health employers and the government on

Corey: 00:01:25

the issue of violence, health, and safety.

Nathan: 00:01:27

That's a nice statement She makes there , you know, like that,

Nathan: 00:01:31

that that's a very, uh, that's a well-crafted little piece of prose there.

Nathan: 00:01:37

Yeah, because it , it says a lot, it says it nicely, but at the same time,

Nathan: 00:01:44

Yeah, you guys might, might wanna think about what's going on here, you know?

Corey: 00:01:48

Well, yeah.

Corey: 00:01:48

And this is the, the end of 2022.

Corey: 00:01:52

And anyone who's been a healthcare worker for the last 15 years or more, but.

Corey: 00:01:59

In my life experience in the last 15 years, violence has

Corey: 00:02:04

been a part of the, of the job, unfortunately, for that whole time.

Corey: 00:02:09

Mm-hmm.

Corey: 00:02:09

. So , is there an oversight?

Corey: 00:02:11

Well, again, language is so important here.

Corey: 00:02:15

It's, it's an oversight or it's a.

Corey: 00:02:18

Under the carpet sweep job

Corey: 00:02:22

. Nathan: Yeah.

Corey: 00:02:23

Uh, yeah, that's a nice little, uh, I like that, uh, statement there.

Corey: 00:02:27

. Anyways, please.

Corey: 00:02:29

I, the fact is all provincial health authorities use the same provincial

Corey: 00:02:32

reporting system, and we know that there are issues within the system

Corey: 00:02:35

as we've seen this with this penalty.

Corey: 00:02:37

The nurses' union added similar issues have been seen in other health

Corey: 00:02:41

authorities, including on Vancouver Island, which was ordered to engage in in

Corey: 00:02:45

a compliance agreement with WorkSafe for poorly conducted safety investigations

Corey: 00:02:50

and low safety training rates.

Corey: 00:02:52

The BC and U are calling on the government to audit an all occupational health

Corey: 00:02:56

and safety reports from the last year to ensure investigations are conduct.

Corey: 00:03:01

And that corrective actions are put in place to keep health workers safe.

Corey: 00:03:07

, Nathan: could you imagine if you're,

Corey: 00:03:11

echelon of a health authority and you're, you're reading that statement?

Corey: 00:03:15

I mean, I don't know if this is kind of like a, a warning shot or

Corey: 00:03:22

it seems to me this is something that should have been done.

Corey: 00:03:26

I don't know.

Corey: 00:03:27

10 years ago at least.

Corey: 00:03:29

Yeah.

Corey: 00:03:29

Yeah.

Corey: 00:03:30

Um, it, it, it's so odd the way this, this stuff works and I, you know, I know

Corey: 00:03:37

we're limited in information and, uh, even understanding of the information that we

Corey: 00:03:42

have, but I've got another article here.

Corey: 00:03:44

Sure.

Corey: 00:03:44

I guess we can add a little bit to it.

Corey: 00:03:46

On the non-work safe DC's website, the agency inspected a long-term

Corey: 00:03:51

care facility in Fort St.

Corey: 00:03:53

John BC in response to an incident of violence against a worker.

Corey: 00:03:57

The agency found the investigation reports for that incident, and several past

Corey: 00:04:02

incidents lacked key information such as underlying causes and corrective actions.

Corey: 00:04:08

Uh, which is, I mean, to me that means they just were

Corey: 00:04:11

maybe filed and not done right.

Corey: 00:04:13

Yeah, the employer failed to ensure a, a report of its full

Corey: 00:04:18

investigation, was prepared in accordance with their guidelines.

Corey: 00:04:21

Uh, and it was, uh, this was a repeated violation at the same site, so they'd

Corey: 00:04:27

probably been warned multiple times.

Corey: 00:04:28

And then, uh, Northern Health Mixes nonsense statement about how they

Corey: 00:04:33

are the safest place in the world.

Corey: 00:04:36

I didn't know that this was such a prevalent thing, but in 2021 there

Corey: 00:04:40

were 4,438 reported incidents of violence in BC's healthcare sector.

Corey: 00:04:46

That's a lot for a year.

Corey: 00:04:47

Mm-hmm.

Corey: 00:04:48

, I mean, My God, with 721 of those incidents turning into time loss

Corey: 00:04:54

claims, uh, and, uh, work safety DC compensation payouts, working

Corey: 00:04:59

out to approximately 7 million.

Corey: 00:05:02

So could you describe to us what would be considered, uh, like what would be

Corey: 00:05:07

reported as, as violence for a, a nurse?

Corey: 00:05:11

I wouldn't have working.

Corey: 00:05:12

Yeah.

Corey: 00:05:12

Oh, verbal threats.

Corey: 00:05:14

Name calling.

Nathan: 00:05:15

Okay.

Nathan: 00:05:16

Like gonna verbal violence idea, or I'm gonna kill you or, yep.

Nathan: 00:05:19

Something that, yeah.

Nathan: 00:05:19

Okay.

Nathan: 00:05:20

Yep.

Corey: 00:05:21

Um, I've had, I've been called, called names sworn at.

Corey: 00:05:26

I've had the threat of, you know, I'm gonna wait for you in the parking lot.

Corey: 00:05:30

Mm-hmm.

Corey: 00:05:31

, um, I've had that specific threat and then escalating to physical

Corey: 00:05:36

altercations to nurses being grabbed.

Corey: 00:05:39

Now, maybe that may be by a patient with dementia or patient

Corey: 00:05:42

with cognitive impairment, but it may also be by, uh, strapping.

Corey: 00:05:46

You know, young male patient or family member.

Nathan: 00:05:49

Okay.

Nathan: 00:05:50

And is this, so in these violent acts that they're counting here, that includes

Nathan: 00:05:56

patients who, cuz I know some if, if, if you're on ward where it's all cognitive

Nathan: 00:06:01

deficiencies and, and stuff like that, there can be a lot of, uh, hypersexuality

Nathan: 00:06:07

violence, all these aggression things that would lead to violence anyways.

Nathan: 00:06:11

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:06:11

So those are counted as.

Corey: 00:06:13

Yeah, it's encouraged now that, that even those things are counted.

Corey: 00:06:16

Okay.

Corey: 00:06:17

Yeah.

Corey: 00:06:17

And that the perception of violence can be counted.

Corey: 00:06:20

And you know, I, I even recall one incident where I was slapped, um, by

Corey: 00:06:24

a patient, by a female patient, . And, and it, the patient was, was confused.

Corey: 00:06:30

And it, to me it wasn't a big deal.

Corey: 00:06:33

Like it was, I was fine to continue working.

Corey: 00:06:35

I was slapped on the on.

Corey: 00:06:36

On the upper arm and, and was fine.

Corey: 00:06:39

Wow.

Corey: 00:06:39

It left

Nathan: 00:06:40

a What did you do to her, Corey?

Nathan: 00:06:42

What, what, what, what you,

Corey: 00:06:43

what was going on?

Corey: 00:06:44

I, you know, I think we were, I think we were trying to redirect this

Corey: 00:06:46

patient back into bed and they, and they turned around and, and slapped me

Corey: 00:06:50

in the arm and it left a palm print.

Corey: 00:06:53

and . Geez.

Corey: 00:06:54

Yeah.

Corey: 00:06:55

And I remember just being like, oh, no, no, it's fine.

Corey: 00:06:58

And I was like, strongly encouraged that.

Corey: 00:07:01

even that report it and at least so that there's documentation of it,

Corey: 00:07:05

there wasn't any follow through.

Corey: 00:07:06

It wasn't a, it wasn't anything that I missed any time off for, but the, those

Corey: 00:07:10

things are, need to be reported for statistics and, um, and for reporting.

Corey: 00:07:15

So, so it could be something as small as that, or it could be

Corey: 00:07:19

something as large as incidents.

Corey: 00:07:21

Incidences that I am aware of, individuals.

Corey: 00:07:24

Never went back to work after a, after a violent assault by a patient or patient

Corey: 00:07:29

assault with weapons in some cases.

Corey: 00:07:31

Yeah.

Corey: 00:07:32

Um, that's the extent that we're talking about here.

Corey: 00:07:35

So here's what I think is coming though too.

Corey: 00:07:37

I mean, and I know that there, that occupational health and safety

Corey: 00:07:40

committees look at, you know, at at floor plans and, and designs and egress

Corey: 00:07:45

and, and all those types of factors.

Corey: 00:07:48

We also know that, that one of the big factors for, for violence or

Corey: 00:07:53

threats of violence are the wait times.

Corey: 00:07:56

And, and so this week in, in our province, um, the children's hospital

Corey: 00:08:03

let this past weekend reported 12 hour plus waits for, for children and their

Corey: 00:08:09

families waiting for to access to er and the public health implications that

Corey: 00:08:14

are, that's a whole other conversation.

Corey: 00:08:16

And, and the a.

Corey: 00:08:18

and rightly so, is primarily on the fact that our children in our province are

Corey: 00:08:23

having to wait that long for healthcare.

Corey: 00:08:25

The other side of that though is, is the stress and the tension that

Corey: 00:08:30

that is putting on the system.

Corey: 00:08:31

That then without question increases the risk for either verbal or physical

Corey: 00:08:39

violence towards healthcare workers.

Corey: 00:08:41

And I think I, I have been in that position where there have been

Corey: 00:08:44

extreme wait times and that's when.

Corey: 00:08:47

People are frustrated, people are pissed off, people are tired, people

Corey: 00:08:51

are scared, and those are risk factors for for violence at the work.

Nathan: 00:08:57

Well, it's their, especially if you're talking about their kids,

Nathan: 00:09:00

like, uh, yeah, I believe, um, in Colonna they just lost a, a, I think

Nathan: 00:09:06

she was a nine year old girl to, um, is it scarlet Fever and pneumonia?

Nathan: 00:09:11

Something like that.

Nathan: 00:09:12

But it was missed.

Nathan: 00:09:14

Uh, she did get into the yard, it was missed on the original diagnosis.

Nathan: 00:09:18

Mm-hmm.

Nathan: 00:09:19

and likely due to rushing.

Nathan: 00:09:22

And, uh, she.

Nathan: 00:09:24

Yeah, and this, this is gonna be, uh, I think we're.

Nathan: 00:09:29

To me that's a, you know, a consequence of, of the changes that

Nathan: 00:09:33

have been made to our structure Yes.

Nathan: 00:09:35

Over the last little while here, and we're, we're trying to piece things back

Nathan: 00:09:39

together, but we've, you know, we've got immune systems that are not exposed.

Nathan: 00:09:45

We've got bugs that are now more vicious.

Nathan: 00:09:46

We've got all sorts of different things to contend with, but the fact that, uh,

Nathan: 00:09:51

our wait times are, are so preposterous.

Nathan: 00:09:55

If I could solve this one source of stress in pharmacy somehow, if I could

Nathan: 00:10:00

get rid, rid of the stress of knowing that there's people waiting mm-hmm.

Nathan: 00:10:04

, I don't know why that bothers me so much.

Nathan: 00:10:07

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:10:07

But I just, I, I can't imagine what it would be, what it would be like

Nathan: 00:10:13

from a nurse's perspective where you know that you've got people out there

Nathan: 00:10:17

who are in serious shape, maybe in really bad pain, like intolerable.

Nathan: 00:10:22

Uh, nausea, uh, maybe life-threatening situation.

Nathan: 00:10:26

They're waiting there sometimes for hours.

Nathan: 00:10:31

And then how are you supposed to even, I would just feel

Nathan: 00:10:34

like a jackass immediately.

Nathan: 00:10:35

Mm-hmm.

Nathan: 00:10:36

for being in, for working in a place that was so ill-prepared

Nathan: 00:10:40

for what its function is.

Nathan: 00:10:41

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:10:43

I mean, that must have killed you, Matt.

Nathan: 00:10:45

Like,

Corey: 00:10:45

it, it did.

Corey: 00:10:46

I, I had that What you're saying is absolutely how I felt.

Corey: 00:10:50

Um, and it's a helpless, powerless, very stressful feeling.

Corey: 00:10:55

You know, I, I, uh, a memory comes to mind where in the hospital I was working

Corey: 00:11:00

in, there had been a, a pediatric death that had occurred earlier in the.

Corey: 00:11:05

And we were just maxed out.

Corey: 00:11:07

We were just full to the brim in the ER with patients the whole week.

Corey: 00:11:10

It was just a really busy week.

Corey: 00:11:12

I think it was probably in the winter, and it was just packed.

Corey: 00:11:15

And, uh, and the wait times were, well, they weren't 12 hours, but they were long.

Corey: 00:11:19

And, uh, a patient spouse came up to me and said, you

Corey: 00:11:22

know, how long's it gonna be?

Corey: 00:11:23

My wife is really sick.

Corey: 00:11:24

And I was apologetic and said, yeah, I I, I'm sorry sir.

Corey: 00:11:28

I don't know how much longer it'll be kind of a thing.

Corey: 00:11:30

And he said, well, you, that's right.

Corey: 00:11:32

You, you just kill children here.

Corey: 00:11:33

Don't.

Corey: 00:11:35

And, and, and so there you go.

Corey: 00:11:37

So there's an, and that, that was devastating to me and I, this was shortly

Corey: 00:11:42

before I kind of broke, so to speak.

Corey: 00:11:45

And.

Corey: 00:11:46

That has stuck with me.

Corey: 00:11:47

I still remember it so well and how that, how you could say anything

Corey: 00:11:52

other than that being an incident of violence, making a statement like that.

Corey: 00:11:56

And I remember I said, how dare you and I, I kicked him out.

Corey: 00:12:01

. Nathan: Well, pretty good restraint there.

Corey: 00:12:03

. Yeah.

Corey: 00:12:04

But yeah, I can't help but think about Children's

Corey: 00:12:08

Hospital this past weekend and the 12 hour waits and how much.

Corey: 00:12:11

How many times little microaggressions or larger aggressions were, were sort

Corey: 00:12:16

of inflicted upon healthcare workers.

Corey: 00:12:18

And what I would like to see to, to kind of bring it back to the original story

Corey: 00:12:21

outta Prince George, what if you, what if when a 12 hour wait occurred, what if

Corey: 00:12:25

you find the health authority and said, there you go, $350,000, or maybe less,

Corey: 00:12:30

maybe it was a hundred thousand dollars.

Corey: 00:12:32

Every time there's a 12 hour wait or something like that.

Nathan: 00:12:35

Yeah, there could be something done.

Nathan: 00:12:38

You

Corey: 00:12:38

know, what about that?

Corey: 00:12:39

Hit 'em where it hurts.

Nathan: 00:12:40

One thing that I've always thought would.

Nathan: 00:12:43

Would help at least a little bit.

Nathan: 00:12:45

I'd help a lot in, in rural communities where they have limited resources

Nathan: 00:12:50

is if they instilled just a $10 service charge at the counter.

Nathan: 00:12:55

Whenever you go to the er, that's all just 10 or walk-in clinic, it's just 10 bucks.

Nathan: 00:13:00

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:13:00

But what that would do, although if we may , uh, but maybe make that 20 now,

Nathan: 00:13:06

uh, it has to be enough so that , you know, you should have to think a little.

Nathan: 00:13:12

Before you just walk into the emergency or just walk into a, uh, walk-in clinic.

Nathan: 00:13:18

Don't just show up to the doctor because you walked by a clinic

Nathan: 00:13:23

and thought, Hey, why not?

Nathan: 00:13:24

I'll go in and see what's happening.

Nathan: 00:13:26

Mm-hmm.

Nathan: 00:13:27

, we don't have the resources for that anymore.

Nathan: 00:13:30

And I know people would freak out and No, well, it's, then

Nathan: 00:13:33

it wouldn't be free healthcare.

Nathan: 00:13:34

Well, you know, it's not really free healthcare anyways, guys, it's, it's us

Nathan: 00:13:39

pooling our money together to try and help each other when we need it the most.

Nathan: 00:13:42

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:13:43

That's what is going on here.

Nathan: 00:13:45

So I don't know if that would, what that would translate into, but I do

Nathan: 00:13:50

know that, uh, whether you're working on a pharmacy hospital, walk-in clinic,

Nathan: 00:13:55

whatever, there's those type of patients.

Nathan: 00:13:58

who are there because they're bored.

Nathan: 00:14:01

You know, there's, there's patients who are there because

Nathan: 00:14:03

they want to talk to somebody.

Nathan: 00:14:04

There's patients who, you see them every.

Nathan: 00:14:08

, they're, they're like repeat offender patients.

Nathan: 00:14:10

They just mm-hmm.

Nathan: 00:14:12

rotating through the door and they ne, you know, you see 'em,

Nathan: 00:14:14

what, what can we do for you?

Nathan: 00:14:16

Oh, oh, well I just had this one concern.

Nathan: 00:14:19

And you know, the doctor has a hell of a time getting 'em out.

Nathan: 00:14:21

They now, so, so they burn up like two spots, right.

Nathan: 00:14:24

For nothing.

Nathan: 00:14:24

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:14:25

And it's not that we shouldn't do something to help those

Nathan: 00:14:28

people, but it's not that.

Nathan: 00:14:29

Right.

Nathan: 00:14:30

Those people need some kind of social.

Nathan: 00:14:33

So I don't know, what do you think?

Nathan: 00:14:35

Do you, do you think that would alleviate some, some of the, uh,

Corey: 00:14:38

yeah, pressure.

Corey: 00:14:39

It, it would, it, it certainly would.

Corey: 00:14:40

I've had that thought before too.

Corey: 00:14:42

It can't be a barrier, you know, we, we can't have people staying at home

Corey: 00:14:46

to avoid the, the service charge and then they die of some preventable

Corey: 00:14:51

illness or, or something like that.

Corey: 00:14:53

So, I don't know if that has to be managed, but.

Nathan: 00:14:57

I think there's a devaluation that goes on in people's minds

Nathan: 00:15:01

as well where they, they feel they're entitled to whatever.

Nathan: 00:15:06

Like, I want, I don't like that doctor.

Nathan: 00:15:08

I want this other doctor and I want, I want to have all these

Nathan: 00:15:12

items treated and I want these reports and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Nathan: 00:15:15

And nobody seems to understand about time and resources.

Nathan: 00:15:18

I dunno.

Corey: 00:15:19

But it does.

Corey: 00:15:20

It is also to me, what is happening is the health authorities are.

Corey: 00:15:25

whether they're comfortable or not, they are, they seem to be willing

Corey: 00:15:29

to continue on for as long as they can, as the, as the ship is sinking.

Corey: 00:15:34

Like they're, they're willing to put the staff that they have

Corey: 00:15:37

under an immense amount of stress.

Corey: 00:15:40

And, and so whether the penalties should be to the health authority specifically or

Corey: 00:15:45

whether they should be somehow, and this is a whole thing with regionalization, is

Corey: 00:15:50

that, that it's the region that gets d.

Corey: 00:15:53

But it is the administration of the hospital that is then accountable

Corey: 00:15:56

to the greater health authority that makes those small micro decisions

Corey: 00:16:01

that impact that 12 hour period.

Corey: 00:16:03

I think, and for example, last weekend in, in Vancouver when they,

Corey: 00:16:08

you know, these 12 hour wait times, a code orange was called and a code

Corey: 00:16:12

orange is like the code for a natural disaster or a mass casualty incident.

Corey: 00:16:18

So it is the code that can, that can trigger more staff to come.

Corey: 00:16:22

Where they can get people discharged, like you're saying, the person who's

Corey: 00:16:25

just there farting around, get them discharged and home, create the

Corey: 00:16:29

space, get excess patients, moved up to wards, create space in the er.

Corey: 00:16:35

And that code was called on the weekend in Vancouver, and a half

Corey: 00:16:39

an hour later is, it was canceled.

Corey: 00:16:40

And I know, and that code is part of that process is to bring in extra staff.

Corey: 00:16:45

30 minutes later it was canceled and.

Corey: 00:16:49

, I have to wonder, like, is the, was that because it's gonna cost them money?

Corey: 00:16:53

They wanna, as best they can say, oh no, we've got it under control now.

Corey: 00:16:56

Well, you can't tell me that a half an hour later it was under control.

Corey: 00:17:00

Can't be impossible.

Nathan: 00:17:02

No.

Nathan: 00:17:03

Yeah, certainly not, uh, possible.

Nathan: 00:17:05

I'm thinking about this.

Nathan: 00:17:07

From a punitive point of view here, if you've got a certain accountability,

Nathan: 00:17:12

you'd basically have to go up the list through the departments in each

Nathan: 00:17:16

hospital, and then from the hospital to the health authority and all the way

Nathan: 00:17:20

up to, yeah, Adrian Dickson and decide who, and I imagine this itself would

Nathan: 00:17:26

be a goddamn nightmare because they probably don't have a very good structure.

Nathan: 00:17:30

Who's responsible for what?

Nathan: 00:17:32

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:17:33

But at some point, uh, I suppose you could go after like there's a

Nathan: 00:17:38

hospital administrator, correct?

Nathan: 00:17:40

Um, correct.

Nathan: 00:17:42

And this would be considered the, this is the main person who's

Nathan: 00:17:46

overseeing the entire operation.

Nathan: 00:17:48

So I imagine that person, uh, gets paid a, a decent salary handsomely.

Nathan: 00:17:55

So I know that there can be efficiencies created in that echelon.

Nathan: 00:18:00

I know there's a lot of money wasted there along with other areas in the hospital.

Nathan: 00:18:04

But as far as as somebody taking responsibility, why is that administrator?

Nathan: 00:18:10

You'd say, well, I'm working within a budget.

Nathan: 00:18:12

Well, then you've gotta advocate for a bigger budget or

Nathan: 00:18:17

limit the number of patients.

Nathan: 00:18:18

Say this is not a hospital anymore that can do.

Nathan: 00:18:21

Instead of a hospital that has a hundred beds, declare yourself

Nathan: 00:18:25

a hospital that has 50 mm-hmm.

Nathan: 00:18:27

, well then my budget will shrink.

Nathan: 00:18:29

Well, okay, then you're gotta go to the next person.

Nathan: 00:18:32

Now why aren't you giving this guy enough money to to, uh,

Nathan: 00:18:36

to run his hospital properly?

Nathan: 00:18:38

And I, I don't know where you'd land at, at the person or the group of people.

Nathan: 00:18:42

This is the diffusion of responsibility principle that's

Nathan: 00:18:45

rampant in all corporate culture.

Nathan: 00:18:47

And all government especially, right?

Nathan: 00:18:50

But.

Nathan: 00:18:52

It's weird, isn't it?

Nathan: 00:18:53

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:18:54

Like what?

Nathan: 00:18:55

What is the motive here?

Nathan: 00:18:56

Is this all incompetence?

Nathan: 00:18:58

Is it all just poor money management corruption?

Nathan: 00:19:02

Or is there more than that?

Nathan: 00:19:04

Are you know, is there forces actually trying to put pressure on our

Nathan: 00:19:09

system to drive it into the ground?

Nathan: 00:19:11

Uh, and paved the way for privatization?

Nathan: 00:19:14

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:19:14

Sometimes I can't help but think that there's gotta be

Nathan: 00:19:18

exterior corporate motivation.

Nathan: 00:19:21

, you know, start picking at those areas, right?

Nathan: 00:19:24

Like, Hey, you know what?

Nathan: 00:19:26

We see you're having a big problem on that ward.

Nathan: 00:19:28

We got people here.

Nathan: 00:19:30

They're all trained up.

Nathan: 00:19:31

Why don't you just contract out to us?

Nathan: 00:19:33

We'll come in, we'll take over that problem for you.

Nathan: 00:19:36

Bang, that's one in there, you know, and then one section at a time.

Nathan: 00:19:40

All of a sudden you're, you're privatized.

Corey: 00:19:43

Well, yeah, and I, you know, I, it's, it's a, a good question.

Corey: 00:19:46

I think that two things for one, we, we are clinging to the, to the Tommy

Corey: 00:19:51

Douglas style of, of public healthcare.

Corey: 00:19:54

That was invented at a time when the population of Canada was

Corey: 00:19:56

so, so different than it is now.

Corey: 00:19:58

And the needs are so, were so, so different and we're

Corey: 00:20:00

trying to clinging to that.

Corey: 00:20:01

And I also think now, I mean, regionalization came

Corey: 00:20:06

to be in our province.

Corey: 00:20:07

In about 2000, 2001, something like that.

Corey: 00:20:10

And that saw, instead of hospital administrators having their own sort

Corey: 00:20:15

of pool of money, it saw larger pools, much larger pools were formed and

Corey: 00:20:21

our province was broken into, uh, you know, about what eight segments

Corey: 00:20:25

instead of each hospital sort of being.

Corey: 00:20:28

Freestanding and independently operating, they are all clumped

Corey: 00:20:31

into these health authorities.

Corey: 00:20:32

That's a problem.

Corey: 00:20:33

And now, so now we have haves and havenots.

Corey: 00:20:36

Mm-hmm.

Corey: 00:20:37

, now we have individual hospitals answering to, answering and being

Corey: 00:20:42

accountable to a health authority that is doling out money and support.

Nathan: 00:20:46

Too much potential for, uh, too much potential for corruption

Corey: 00:20:50

right there.

Corey: 00:20:50

There's lots of potential for that there.

Corey: 00:20:52

And, and you have communities that are suffering.

Corey: 00:20:54

I think we have health authorities that are suffering.

Corey: 00:20:57

Um, both by overpopulation down here in the south, and then going

Corey: 00:21:01

back to the original story that we shared in about underfunding and

Corey: 00:21:06

a lack of attention and just being sort of forgotten up in the north.

Corey: 00:21:10

Mm-hmm.

Corey: 00:21:11

and it doesn't make sense.

Corey: 00:21:13

Um, I think we modify our system based on the needs at the time, and we

Corey: 00:21:19

have to keep, it has to be evolving.

Corey: 00:21:21

It has to be something that we continue to look at and change.

Corey: 00:21:25

Because right now it seems like it's sinking and not sort of adapting.

Corey: 00:21:29

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:21:30

We're we're running on like, uh, emergency resources as it is, right?

Nathan: 00:21:34

I mean, yeah.

Nathan: 00:21:36

I don't know what the ratio is, but how many hospitals do you think

Nathan: 00:21:39

are being staffed on a regular basis now by like travel nurses?

Nathan: 00:21:43

How many hospitals?

Nathan: 00:21:44

Yeah, like how many do you think are like, or temporary

Nathan: 00:21:48

staff that aren't usually there?

Nathan: 00:21:51

Many, many, many.

Nathan: 00:21:52

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:21:53

And those are more expensive.

Nathan: 00:21:54

They ha they can't be as, as, uh, well equipped for the job as somebody who knows

Nathan: 00:22:00

the place and has been there for a while.

Nathan: 00:22:02

Mm-hmm.

Nathan: 00:22:02

. So you're getting a decreased level of service for more money.

Nathan: 00:22:06

And this has been going on well, what's been going on since probably the last

Nathan: 00:22:12

20 years, but the last two years has put it into a, like a death spiral.

Nathan: 00:22:18

I don't know.

Nathan: 00:22:18

I I, we seem to be a country with, uh, uh, money that the same as the states.

Nathan: 00:22:24

They just, they keep summoning up this money from somewhere.

Nathan: 00:22:27

I don't, yeah, I don't know where, but they never summon

Nathan: 00:22:31

enough for the important things,

Corey: 00:22:33

you know?

Corey: 00:22:34

Yeah.

Corey: 00:22:34

And I guess the last thing I would say is tying it back to our, our podcast and the

Corey: 00:22:39

themes of the things that we talk about.

Corey: 00:22:42

Is that the unspoken consequence of, of violence in the workplace of

Corey: 00:22:47

extreme congestion and stress and the disenfranchisement of, of a workforce

Corey: 00:22:53

is that you'll have more people who are trying to cope and trying to

Corey: 00:22:58

self soothe and, and there are more people in that whole world right now.

Corey: 00:23:05

Of healthcare workers who are struggling, and to hear the government say, well,

Corey: 00:23:09

we're, we're talking about mental health and we're talking about addiction

Corey: 00:23:11

and we're trying to make this better.

Corey: 00:23:13

It's like,

Nathan: 00:23:14

oh yeah.

Nathan: 00:23:15

They either have no idea what's going on on the ground level or they're

Nathan: 00:23:20

bullshitting and it's both, yeah.

Nathan: 00:23:23

Walking into the any pharmacy right now and seeing how, if I was motivat.

Nathan: 00:23:29

To to say, I, I was like, eh, you know what?

Nathan: 00:23:32

I'm gonna go back and get a nice steady stream of pharmaceuticals going, uh, this

Nathan: 00:23:38

would not be a problem right now for me.

Nathan: 00:23:40

Everything is in such a state of chaos in, in, in just that industry that

Nathan: 00:23:45

it's gonna take years to get back to where anybody knows what even happened.

Nathan: 00:23:50

Yeah, and I'm sure that's kind of how record keeping is in

Nathan: 00:23:53

the hospital right now too.

Nathan: 00:23:54

Right.

Nathan: 00:23:55

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:23:55

So, so yeah, you gotta wonder how many new problems is this generating

Nathan: 00:24:00

with this immense, unreasonable and, uh, violent workplace setting?

Nathan: 00:24:05

And then, uh, and then the circumstances in which it allows,

Nathan: 00:24:08

uh, people to just go wild, right?

Nathan: 00:24:11

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:24:11

Yeah, yeah.

Nathan: 00:24:13

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:24:14

I would, uh, I would expect to keep seeing more of the same.

Nathan: 00:24:17

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:24:18

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:24:19

That's our, uh, update on that situation.

Nathan: 00:24:22

We'll keep you guys inform.

Nathan: 00:24:24

There'll probably be a little bit of follow up, and then we'll see.

Nathan: 00:24:26

We'll see what happens with WorkSafe, BC and, uh, are they bluffing

Nathan: 00:24:31

or will they come for everyone?

Nathan: 00:24:37

find out on our next episode, and please, if you're watching

Nathan: 00:24:41

on YouTube share like s.

Nathan: 00:24:45

Comment, do whatever you gotta do to express yourself so we can hear from you.

Nathan: 00:24:49

Yeah.

Nathan: 00:24:50

And, uh, to our listeners, thank you very much for, uh, tuning

Nathan: 00:24:53

in and, uh, we'll talk soon.

Nathan: 00:24:57

Talk soon.